Information

Welcome and introductions.

 

Attendees:

PFCC Danielle Stone (DS)

Marianne Kimani (MK)

Jonny Bugg (JB)

Vaughan Ashcroft (VA)

Louise Sheridan (LS)

Paul Fell (PF)

Paul Bullen (PB)

Nick Alexander (NA)

CFO Nikki Watson (NW)

DCFO Simon Tuhill (ST)

ACFO Rob Porter (RP)

ACFO Phil Pells (PP)

Area Manager Neil Sadler (NS)

 

Apologies:

 

 

Minutes and decisions of previous meeting

 

• DS welcomed everyone to the meeting.
• Minutes of the previous meeting were circulated with the meeting papers.

 

 

Health and Safety Report

 

The NFRS health and safety policy requires an annual presentation on Health and Safety performance to the PFCC.

The PFCC requires a report to the accountability board of the health and safety performance over the period 1^st April 2023 to 31^st March 2024, that meets the needs of that policy.

The report should identify trends in health and safety reports, highlight good practice and highlight areas of risk or required improvement.

 

• The report was taken as read with ACO Paul Bullen and ACFO Phil Pells providing additional commentary.
• ACFO Phil Pells has been the H&S Chair for the past 12 months, but this role is now moving to ACO Bullen.
• The report outlines the position for 2023/24 and covers a range of different H&S incidents.

• RIDDOR principles are adhered to, and although there were five more reported incidents in 2023/24, overall, the accident trend is consistent and remains below the 2021 peak of 61 incidents.
• Reporting is predicated on staff recording incidents and providing quality information.
• The current recording system is end of life. The new system will give greater granularity.
• There was a discussion about the types of incidents recorded.
• These were largely incidents on station (training) or routine slips trips and falls on station.
• Low numbers of incidents overall.
• The objective for the coming year is to be more proactive and preventative.
• PP advised that the current H&S committee has a good membership and is well attended and there is good senior officer oversight and governance.
• However, he is looking to review attendees which will be focused on Rep bodies.
• On the 57 incidents recorded, PB advised that most were without injury and no poor behaviours or current trends have been detected.
• Where past trends have been identified, mitigation has been implemented for example, incidents involving breathing apparatus – The process for cleaning the equipment has been changed alongside more training and awareness.
• The Commissioner asked if there was any disproportionality in the number of incidents reported (men versus women).
• PB confirmed that data is not currently available
• MK asked what was the main thing people are tripping on.
• PB advised that he didn’t have that information to hand but would provide it.

Action – PB to give a more detailed breakdown of slips, trips and falls.

 

• Overall, a heathy picture and shows a workforce that has health and safety at his heart.
• The Commissioner asked about wellbeing.
• PB advised that Occupational health and Wellbeing sit together.
• Access to OH has improved and will improve further under the new provider.
• Looking to move to an inhouse arrangement same as they have done with the police.

 

Assurance statement:

The Commissioner in receiving this report questioned what trends there were in the rise in reported incidents over three years from 44 to 57. It was reported that these were accidents with no injuries sustained and that there were no obvious trends in these. She welcomed the fact that there had been an intentional push on increasing reporting. This was being closely monitored but she was assured that at this point the service did not have concerns over this.

The Commissioner agreed that this was an important subject and that given the nature of the work of a fire fighter at times, the report overall demonstrated a positive picture. She did ask for further information on the types of incidents that were leading to slips, trips and falls.

She questioned firefighters’ ability to access Occupational Health and Wellbeing support where required. This was described as an improved picture with additional work being undertaken to improve further, which was welcomed.

 

 

Budget out turn 2023/2024 and MTFP update.

 

The Commissioner requests a report on the Northamptonshire Fire and Rescue Service financial outturn position for 2023/2024.

 

The paper should also include an update on the medium-term financial plan, highlighting any revisions, taking into account the budget outturn position for 2023/24 and any other available information since the 2024/25 budget setting process.

 

The paper should also include an update on progress against the planning for agreed and required future savings plans.

 

• The Budget out turn paper was taken as read.
• Nick Alexander advised that he would highlight any pertinent areas unless the Commissioner had any specific questions.
• The Commissioner asked why there was no specific budget for Wellbeing.
• NA advised it was accounted for within the Health and Safety Budget
• Protection is the legislative side such as commercial businesses.
• Prevention is preventing stuff in the community.
• Response is the third pillar.
• NA confirmed that the Service came in on budget largely due to over achievement on business collection rates.
• The business rate position was set in 2019 and has grown every year.
• NA’s concern is that there is no significant justification of why collection rates are growing, and it could be unstainable.
• The North is more consistent in its collection rates and assumptions than the West.
• NA advised that he remains cautious due to corrections in the past and some downturn.
• He confirmed that he has written to LG Futures to see if they can help with more accurate forecasts as he is concerned about the robustness of forecasts from the county.
• Previously set forecast at existing level, plus inflation plus any known events
• This has certainly helped getting the Reserves to a healthier position.
• There is a business rates review scheduled for 2026 which could have a positive or negative impact on funding depending on what they do.

Action – The Commissioner to add business rate forecast and collection rates to the agenda at the next national Fire meeting as she is the lead for the APCC.

• NA advised that following the implementation of spending controls on overtime in 2022/23, it has been well managed throughout 2023/24.
• These robust controls allow a much greater degree of certainty for the Outturn.

• On overtime, the Commissioner asked for a breakdown of overtime payments to male versus female staff.

Action – RP to provide.

• There was a discussion about the level of unspent grants held by Fire nationally.
• NFRS has accelerated how it spends money from grants allocated in 2023/24 and has plans in place to ensure they are delivered so that money does not have to be returned to the Home Office.
• There was a discussion about the use of Reserves and agreed transfers.
• The Transformation Reserve remains at £1m and is ring-fenced to support the investment and recommendations from the forthcoming ECR.
• There was a discussion about Section 106 money.
• The Service have recruited someone to ensure we are aligned to future planning and receive S106 monies.
• This is better for Fire than policing.
• PB advised that Police are not a statutory authority so they cannot request S106 money and have to get an agent to ask on their behalf.
• This is tracked by a specialist member of staff.
• The ECR will help as will look at current demand and predict future demand.
• It was noted that Northamptonshire has seen a 12.8% population increase.

 

Assurance statement:

The 2023/2024 financial out turn report showed an underspend for the year for NFRS of £21,000. The Commissioner noted that it was positive that reserves had been maintained at a healthy level.

It was welcomed and noted that very positive controls had been put into place to bring previous overtime spends in line with the allocated budget.

The Commissioner instigated a discussion about developer contributions to support the Fire and Rescue Service and asked whether a register was kept of what had been asked for and allocated from developers through planning. She was assured that this was the case.

The Commissioner formally accepted and recognised the report and thanked the Chief Officers and finance teams for both the report and their efforts in ensuring the most effective management of the budget.

 

 

MTFP

• NA advised that since 2019 the deficit position has been historically around 10%.
• It is now much healthier at 4%.
• The MTFP is based on the latest budget and precept.
• It broadly covers everything that we believe will have a long-term impact on the Service.
• There are robust plans in place to manage any saving requirements which includes pay awards.

• NA explained that the 2025/26 precept has been modelled on three possible scenarios. (1.99%, £5 and £10).
• NA advised that there may be a lag between receiving the increase in income from the precept and spending the money – recruitment and vetting take a significant amount of time.
• There was a discussion about the trances of activity for the ECR.
• The Chief Fire Officer advised that some will be short-term, some longer-term and some that will require consultation.
• The Deputy Chief Fire Officer advised that he has a Gant Chart that spans 12 years and is happy to take the Commissioner through it.
• Response times is the critical bit to sequence.
• Overall, it was agreed that the services finances are healthy.
• The Commissioner asked about overspends in non-budgeted posts and whether these are they likely to recur.
• NA advised that these were in Protection and Prevention and are not likely to become a recurring issue.
• PF commented that the ECR timeline of 12 years felt overly long and asked if there was a reason for this.
• The Chief Fire Officer agreed to provide an overview.

Action – NW to provide an overview of the 12-year ECR timeline.

 

Assurance statement:

The paper provided showed an improved picture following recently agreed pay and pension increases, and any changed since the 2024/25 budget setting process.

The Commissioner recognised the work that had been undertaken to get to this point and thanked all for their efforts in providing as much clarity as possible of future finances.

 

 

Driver training

The Commissioner is aware of some potential legislative changes to the way drivers of fire appliances are trained in the future and the risks that this may create.

The Commissioner requests a paper from the Chief Fire Officer which highlights these anticipated changes, the timescales for their implementation, any concerns or risks that it is believe that they may create and the plan in place now and for the future to mitigate these.

The paper should also outline the current position in relation to qualified drivers and training and highlight where it is felt additional investment might be required.

 

• AC Neil Sadler provided additional commentary.
• Following legislation and Fire standards changes, Emergency Response Driver Training has had to be reviewed and new processes and procedures adopted.
• The new legislation requires that driver training is standardised across all Fire and Rescue Services to ensure all training is of the same quality.
• As a result, the Standard Driver Training Course has been increased to 80 hours over a 3-week period.

• The Service has looked at modular training, but this was not feasible as they only have one full time qualified driving instructor.
• It is proposed that an additional full-time instructor is employed as it is impossible to achieve the standard with one full time and two associate instructors who are station based and have to be taken away from the station, if needed for training.
• Other Services have an average of 4.5 instructors, so NFRS is short in this area.
• Legislation changes have doubled the length of the driving course plus a mandatory night drive has been added.
• The driving accident rate is relatively low and improving.
• The Commissioner asked if the Service considered its drivers are safe.
• NS confirmed they were. Refresher training is undertaken every 3 years despite legislation stating it should be every 5 years.
• Majority of accidents are low level issues such as reversing.
• The NFCC have made it clear that to be complaint, Fire and Rescue Services must meet the standard.
• Under the new guidelines, the lead full time instructor can deliver nine initial category C courses in a 12-month period. With two candidates on each course the Service can train 18 staff a year.
• Associate instructors are unable to deliver this type of course due to extraction restrictions.
• The workforce plan forecasts an average attrition rate of drivers at 18-20 per annum (promotion and leaving the Service)
• There is no additional payment for the extra responsibility of driving an fire appliance and as a driver, at many incidents you stay with the appliance to carry out other tasks rather than be in Breathing Apparatus.
• This can make the role less attractive for some.
• Only being able to train 18 new drivers will have an impact.
• If the Service had more drivers there would be more rotation.
• There was a discussion about refresher training.
• Associate instructors are currently being used to deliver refresher training at a cost of approximated £16k per annum.
• 341 bank shifts have been required to back fill a shortage of in available drivers at a cost of £84k in overtime.
• The Commissioner asked if covering the shortage of driver availability via overtime is safe
• NS confirmed it was safe and that the number of hours that a driver can work is governed by the working time directive.
• The Commissioner asked why drivers need to be firefighters if they stay with the appliance and do not enter the fire.
• NS confirmed that the currently all firefighters undertake a variety of roles across their operational competence an there is no provision to have staff who only drive appliances to incidents.  .
• There was a discussion about some work underway with the NJC around skills payments. This may include driving of fire appliances or other extra skills, but it is still up for negotiation via NJC mechanisms which can be lengthy.
• The Commissioner asked about the £11k fee payable to the NFCC.

• NS advised this is a more advanced qualification which covers a driver trainer registration (taking 7 weeks) with an ongoing annual fee per instructor.
• It was agreed that there needs to be a longer-term discussion and decision on how best to address the shortage of trained drivers.
• If paying £84k in overtime it would be better to use this money towards the cost of a professional driving team/school.

Action – The Commissioner would like to understand the financial cost of back filling before commitment to have inhouse driver training facility. She requested a business case which assesses the operational need and value of such a facility. This should also incorporate an element of future proofing from the work undertaken for the ECR.

 

• It was agreed that the paper submitted for this accountability board could be added as the background to the business case.

 

Assurance statement:

The Chief Fire Officer provided a paper that reported the current position in relation to the training of firefighters for emergency response driving, as well as articulating the challenges that lay ahead with some legislative changes reflected in the new Fire Standard relating to this matter.

Following a detailed discussion, it was agreed that the current arrangements and processes were not fit for purpose and that the Chief Fire Officer should prepare a costed business case for the establishment of a modern and fit for purpose driver training section that was able to deliver the requirements for now and the future taking into account any work undertaken following the recent emergency cover review.

 

A.O.B

No further business was raised.